Disrespectful behavior

Aladour · Post by **Aladour** » 26 Oct 2002, 23:20

With due respect to the Wulf clan, but I feel my rights were violated by a group of your guild memebrs who interrupted an activity organized by The Sacred Order,  While I am not speaking officially for them I am bringing this issue to your attention as I find it disrespectful towards our guild to have our activities interrupted and causing us to be viewed as dishonorable.  We had organized duels with enemy realms, which I know Wulf Clan is against their guild memeber to do, but your guild CANNOT dictate the rules for other guilds and should respect our wishes to hold duels if we so choose.  It is our activitym, the same as any raid  or epic quest would be...

The blatant and unnanounced interruption a group of your guild memebers made into our activities is unnacceptable and dishonorable behavior and a definite breach ofguild ettiquette.

A duel under historical and real life codes is  based on honor and mutual respect.   For your clan to atack and kill OUR guests is to put us into a dishonorable position.  YES they are enemies, but even in real life their are military codes of conduct and international codes of behavior.   I am apalled that a clan that I respected and whith whom's guild member I have played with and helped level and do epics has left such a bad taste in my mouth.   I believe an apology is in order to those albions who's right to set up their own activities was violated.

Post by **Antarion** » 27 Oct 2002, 00:03

I do not play DAoC anymore but i do feel this issue needs to be discussed.

Thus, i have placed a link to this topic in our private members forum, all replies to it will show up here in our public forum.

-Ant

Pog · Post by **Pog** » 27 Oct 2002, 00:12

Our Guild policy is to disrupt duelling.

We view it as a way of unfairly farming realm points.

Mythic has stated that the breaking up of duels is a part of the game.

We meant you no affront, we merely acted on our long-held policy.

Aladour · Post by **Aladour** » 27 Oct 2002, 01:56

If I said our guild long term policy has been to disrrupt datmoore raids or lyonesse tree groups would that make it okay?   Clan wolf has the right to not hold duels but not to impose their policy to other guilds by disrupting their activities.  Mythic does not interfere with very much of any activity players do on the game, it is upto to us the players to set codes of conduct, behavior and mutual respect.

The nazies had a long standing policy of killing jews, that did not make it legal or justifiable to commit genocide now did it?

This is a game, but a game based on medieval principals of chivalry and honor.  

And for the record, just because your guild has an internal policy that is long standing make it known to everyone else.

Does the whole of Albion kay have to cater to your guilds preferrences? I think not.  

If RP's is the issue then go RVR, earn them, don't steal them.

Trust me I complain just as loudly when other relam guilds backstab and yellowbelly kill our realm people who are trustuing in the honor of our hosts.  And are pretty much unarmed to their sneak attack.   Where is the glory to that?

Being a small guild yourselves, your members depend on the larger guilds to invite them to raids and to groups so much of the rvr is a partnership achievement. You do not gain favor in other guilds eyes by disrepecting their right to set activities that have NO impact on any other guild.  You want mor RP... recruit more people to have a strong rvr force, dont disrupt other guilds activities.  

And as far as farming RP's... I think your excuse of a policy is a sneaky way to farm easy rp's by knowingly attacking enemies who are expecting fair play.   How many rp's were farmed by your guild in todays raid'? I am sure you gave them all away, right?

Dr. Pain · Post by **Dr. Pain** » 27 Oct 2002, 03:15

Guest wrote:If RP's is the issue then go RVR, earn them, don't steal them.

i think youll find duelling is just RP farming, and you should go earn them in REAL RvR. I dont mean any disrespect but if any enemies are found in our frontiers we have no obligation to let them live. Your guild does not speak for the whole of Albion when inviting enemies within our borders, and so they should not expect to be left alone by the whole of albion.

Also by duelling you ARE affecting us, by giving the enemy more rp, thefore better realm abilities, which they can use against us in relic raids and keep raids and so forth.

And we are not that small a guild for your information :p

Llew · Post by **Llew** » 27 Oct 2002, 03:35

Your comments are extremely distressing in many ways.  First our guild is not as small as you may think.  Although we enjoy teaming up with other guilds, in no way is it a necessity.  

As for your being upset with our policy of dueling.  We do not try or force our feelings on anyone else.  We just play the game and look for enemy to kill.  If you choose to duel in the Battle grounds then be aware that if we catch wind of any enemy out and about we will take the appropriate actions to rid the Battle grounds of their presence.  If that is disrupting a dueling session then so be it.  Of course that gives me that much more fun.  Which is the point of the game after all.  You have your fun and we will have ours.  Do not come here telling us how to have fun.  We do not tell you,  we just kill on sight any enemy we come across or catch wind of out in the world.  

Also, most real life codes do not fit here because we are playing a game and what you are doing is collecting realm points.  If you would not get RP would you really still be doing it??  I think not!!  Would we be out killing others if no RP's to defend our realm?  I believe so!!

Go away you bother me!!  and keep aware that we will attack any enemy we come across.  Dueling or not.

creb · Post by **creb** » 27 Oct 2002, 03:59

Dueling has a valid and justifiable purpose other than providing a platform for unsocial like behavior, rudeness, and lack of respect for other opinions.  Dueling allows a person to test different methods of RvR versus various classes/realms in a controlled environment where you can learn what works best against various combo's. As for farming RP, the last few duels I have been to I would like to think albion at worst held our own. As you are aware, after the first kill in a duel a person is not worth anything in subsequent duels. At the duel last night for example, I won 12 and lost 4 duels.  I gained a total of 2500RP but got a chance to try many different things out and refined my RvR style. This would mean, if they got 'fat RP to give them realm abilities', we did also.

I realize no one will change your internal policy against dueling. I realize also that nothing in the rules says you have to respect anyone elses beliefs. You are under no obligation by the TOS to respect my guild, treat my friends with respect, or allow me to enjoy the game. However, I ask that you do. It should be apparent to you that whenever you rush into an organized dueling session you are going to anger people and hurt feelings.  Please respect our right to enjoy dueling every few weeks and allow us to do so in peace. I am not asking you to join us, condone the activity. It is apparent by the next patch coming in that dueling is something folks enjoy. It is not about RP, it is about the respect and RvR tactics that can be learned. I am asking you to show us some respect.

Creb

50th armsman,

Albion kay

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 27 Oct 2002, 04:06

LOL! Dueling is lame. Duelers = cheaters
if i see an enemy im going to kill it    :p

now that you know our guilds response, and we are soooo small as not to make a difference in RvR, then why hang around here and continue to whine??

Aladour · Post by **Aladour** » 27 Oct 2002, 04:51

Almost ALL my RP has been earned in the field of battle... and many of you know that well, it is not about dueling it is about respect of other peoples choice of activities. And please make a better argument, POG I appreciate your honest response to my concern... as for the other responses, well I will ignore them as they ignore the need to respect other peoples affairs.  You tell me I do not have to like your policies, well You don't have to like ours.

Padeu · Post by **Padeu** » 27 Oct 2002, 10:15

a few quotes :

A: an activity organized by The Sacred Order

where was the invitation or anouncement ?

A: your guild CANNOT dictate the rules for other guilds

Please don't dictate ours

A: Does the whole of Albion kay have to cater to your guilds preferrences? I think not

Exactly

A: unnacceptable and dishonorable behavior and a definite breach ofguild ettiquette

are you talking about us or about the reactions we had over chat ?

A: The nazies had a long standing policy of killing jews, that did not make it legal or justifiable to commit genocide now did it?

not gonna stoop to that level

A: I believe an apology is in order

I totally agree - we are waiting for them

Post by **Tara Windsong** » 27 Oct 2002, 10:57

To finish this topic once and for all because I, as the gm of Clan Wulf on Kay, do not want any more hostility, aggression and badmouthing on our boards.

Aladour, you will not get an apology from our side. You claim we disrupted your fun in a dishonorable way, you slander the reputation of our guild, you offend the abilities of our guild members, you even dare to compare us with Nazis. I will not mention what other words were used last night after we killed enemies in "our" borderlands. I repeat: we killed enemies in our border and I do not care a penny what brought them there. We are Albions and that means we are here to defend our realm. Whenever we find enemies in our frontiers - invited or not - we will do our best to drive them out.

I fully support the opinion that duelling - as much fun as it might be to some - is cheating by farming rp. Unfortunately Mythic took a very cowardish stance towards this issue to not loose customers. Trying to satisfy both sides will make them both angry because both feel they are right and both will feel that their "rights" are violated. We are in a dead-end street here and I am very afraid we will never come to an agreement on this issue no matter how long we talk about it. But I also see no need to offend each other even though our opinions are different.

Fare well, Aladour, I wish you and your guild all the best and if you wish to talk about this issue in more detail feel free to contact me in game.

Solitaire · Post by **Solitaire** » 27 Oct 2002, 12:42

There should realy be no need to duel now, charcopy to pen with your friends and duel away...oh no u dont get rp  ???

Brax · Post by **Brax** » 28 Oct 2002, 06:25

CW does not actively search out duels.  However if we do come across a duel in our normal activities we will intervene and save those that are besieged by the enemy.  Also if one of the keep guards of our alliance is killed we will search out the enemy responsible and respond with force.

So to ensure that you have a safe dueling opportunity I suggest you find a nice secluded spot in either the mid or hib frontier.  This way we will be less likely to interrupt you while you consort with the enemy.

Shain · Post by **Shain** » 28 Oct 2002, 20:47

a few quotes...

A: your guild CANNOT dictate the rules for other guilds

Please don't dictate ours

hypocritical  

on both our parts
--------
LOL! Dueling is lame. Duelers = cheaters

please... bring somthing relavent to this topic other then name calling
--------
We view it as a way of unfairly farming realm points.

So when you are told their are duels, not that you wandered upon them but you were told they were happening you attack a totally unsuspecting group of people giving no warning and taking total advantage of the situation... sounds to me like some one is farming more realm points then the people actually dueling.

And TSO did set up those duels I used IRC to set them up.
IRC server: EnterTheGame
Channel: #kay

Some of Kays best players are there Bluree Jasonwu Olim Zolif Cliffeh
What you need to realize I belive Clan Wulf, is that to some of these people it is just a game, and they just wish to have fun.  While you may have fun RvRing and zerging back and forth, others like the way duels are run, and who are you to say that they cant do that?

And while there are no rules you are breaking by coming and RP farming off our duels, it is just simply rude if you wish to come in and break them up at least give a warning to get a fair fight as you claim to want.

Dr. Pain · Post by **Dr. Pain** » 28 Oct 2002, 23:34

i wouldnt mind the duelling as it is your way of having fun, but when you duel your opposition gets more realm points, and some of those ppl also take part of OUR rvr and they have an unfair advantage against us because of the higher lvls or rp they have. If the ppl you were duelling never took part in keep raids and relic raids etc i would have no problem with you duelling, provided none of the duellers rp were reflected on the herald highest ranking players or guilds lists.

Shain · Post by **Shain** » 29 Oct 2002, 03:48

Considering the fact that the top RP gainers are not duelist's by nature I hardly think that, it is a fair assumption that we are cheating that badly if at all.

Shain · Post by **Shain** » 29 Oct 2002, 20:40

Quote: i wouldnt mind the duelling as it is your way of having fun

it is just about the only way I have fun in DAOC any more
I cant stand zergs and thats all daoc seems to be now

I doubt I will even RvR much when realm duels come out

Tiberion · Post by **Tiberion** » 29 Oct 2002, 22:47

What goes around comes around.......

Be prepared

Brax · Post by **Brax** » 29 Oct 2002, 23:03

In order to avoid this type of confrontation try to hold these duels away from the main traffic areas.  

I know of no CW that actually goes out into the frontier looking to interrupt duels.  However if we do come upon the enemy in our travels we will do what is right and proper and attack them where they stand.

Holding duels in our frontier where keep guards can be inadvertantly killed is foolish as keep guards dying will ensure a rapid response.

Post by **Mimer** » 30 Oct 2002, 00:43

The main purpose of this particular game is RvR, not PvP.
Everybody has known that from beginning, so don't come and look surprized, or talk about disrespect when a lot of us just doing that, RvR'ing.
If you really are sincere about this "testing your class/char abilities",
talk with your x-realm friends as usual over IRC and charcopy to Pendragon and do the testing there.

I've heard a lot of arguments like:
"don't interrupt our little xrealm meeting here at [insert a milegate, mainroad or pk]"
"we demand to be left alone and showned respect"
"we don't do this for RP's, just for fun and science"
"we have ALL rights to do what WE want, don't mezz with OUR fun"
"we look bad in our distinguished guests [enemies from my view] eyes if you are killing them ;(("
"if you touch our guests we are going to get you killed and don't ress you"

So to everyone dueling, good luck, I regard you all as realm mates and treat you with proper respect,
and are always there for you in need of help defending our realm, sharing some fun or help you level in PvE,
BUT don't put yourself in hazardous situations like that
and playing martyrs afterwards ingame or on the boards, or even worse
turn on to your own realm mates causing lot of unnecesseray grief among us.